Empire Airspam Always gets on my Nerves

It's completely designed to defeat the Allies, who depend on their Apollos and turrets in the early game to defend themselves from Tengu harassment. I've lost dozens and dozens of games due to the inability of the Allies to counter this combo, since by now most mid-level Empire players know how to micro their mechs properly.

Vs. Apollos, VX transform and own.

Vs. Javelins, Tengu transform on top of them and kill them by HD and guns.

Vs. Turrets, overwhelm them with VX because of their low HP.

Vs. IFVs, these vehicles are weak and waste way too much of their DPS on a single target - useless versus a group.

So I'm stumped... what am I supposed to do to stop him in the mid-game if I see this coming?

The only effective combo I have found is Mirage Tanks & Apollos but that's T3 and requires a 2k WF and 2k for two AFs and he'll be on you long before then.

Short of them changing the game and adding more Allied Surface-to-Air power at T2 with a unit like this, I can't see a good solution anywhere in this fight.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/745/aeroblaze.jpg

IFVs own them while they are airborn- and it doesn't take much to kill either while they are on the ground.

Galgus wrote:IFVs own them while they are airborn- and it doesn't take much to kill either while they are on the ground.

I'm talking about Tengus and VX combined... Tengus are superior to IFVs in a straight up ground fight.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/13/09 8:19:40 PM

So you have something to help out the IFVs- Gaurdian Tanks and Mirage Tanks are good choices- if the VX try to kill them have the Tanks run away while the Multigunners kill the VX.

Caustic wrote:

Galgus wrote:IFVs own them while they are airborn- and it doesn't take much to kill either while they are on the ground.

I'm talking about Tengus and VX combined... Tengus are superior to IFVs in a straight up ground fight.

Hehe, I said this like 6 patches ago. You can't kill them with one unit because they either rule against air or against ground, but never both.

Sador wrote:

Caustic wrote:

Galgus wrote:IFVs own them while they are airborn- and it doesn't take much to kill either while they are on the ground.

I'm talking about Tengus and VX combined... Tengus are superior to IFVs in a straight up ground fight.

Hehe, I said this like 6 patches ago. You can't kill them with one unit because they either rule against air or against ground, but never both.

yeah you need A VERITITY OF UNITS TO WIN n00b this ain't TW

havoc_91 wrote:

Sador wrote:

Caustic wrote:

Galgus wrote:IFVs own them while they are airborn- and it doesn't take much to kill either while they are on the ground.

I'm talking about Tengus and VX combined... Tengus are superior to IFVs in a straight up ground fight.

Hehe, I said this like 6 patches ago. You can't kill them with one unit because they either rule against air or against ground, but never both.

yeah you need A VERITITY OF UNITS TO WIN n00b this ain't TW

The point was they cancel out eachother weaknesses. I never said it was impossible to stop, nor did I mention anything about it in my patchlist.

Tengu ground combat abilities <<<<<<< Tanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/13/09 9:16:33 PM

Galgus wrote:i am an allied n00b that can't keep my Tanks away from tegus by pressing the D button on my keyboard and then click behind my tanks and pick off the tegus as they try to get close.

fix'd

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/13/09 9:28:45 PM

havoc_91 wrote:

Galgus wrote:i am a decent Allied player trying to make you n00bs understand that the Tengus and VX are *** counterable by MBTs+ Basic Air units.Period

fix'd

Now it is truly fixed

Also, it costs the Allies a lot more to construct the counters.

2k for WF and 1K for AF plus HC = 4.5K

2k for MB and 750 for upgrade = 2.75K

Now, speaking of balance.

Next time you lose to this, save the replay, it will help a lot.

However, from my time as playing Empire vs. Allies, and the occasional Allies game, I have figured out one thing. Allies greatest weakness is ~tier 2, before they get fully funcitonal, with several production structures and at least 3 refs.

However, once they get a good combination of units, they are practically unstoppable, at least if the allies player has good micro.

So, you want to delay his early forces, whether it be tengu/striker or tier 2 push, until you have the necessary counters. As you should know, Allies work best with multiple production structures.

I cant' give you any specific advice without a replay, but I suggest you get an AF early (good player often get it straight after the second ref, or between the two refs) and then keep his tengu/striker numbers down with vindis and apollos. bomb the tengus/strikers, and then kill them off with apollos when they land. A good player will place a vx turret next to the WF, which will make this much harder, but you can still do it it you bomb the turret.

Also, if you are facing only strikers and vxs, you could go for a second and third AF, rather than for a WF, after your expansion. with a good amount of airforce, you should't have too much difficulty.

One more thing, don't let him outexpand you. Recently, someone I know on GR.org was complaining about being thrashed by a tengu spam (without strikers) and, when I watched the replay, he was being beaten economically with the enemy haveing 7 refs, versus his 3 refs. Don't let that happen.

Thats some good advice, but the Allies are weak when it comes to expansion. They either use expensive prospectors which take forever to undeploy, or risk their MCV by moving it around and disabling their only build queue. Its a catch 22, because if he shows up with a Tengu rush your done for.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/13/09 10:27:59 PM

I'm not sure how many times I've said this, but I suppose I'll say it again.

On every ranked 1v1 map, there is a nearby expansion, which you can move to without losing your tech. For example, on Infinity Isle, put your AFs and barracks as close to the ridge as possible, then, when you move your MCV to the ridge to expand, you can keep the tech from your MCV.

If you want to expand to more than 3 refineries, you either have to build a different refinery befoer going to that spot, or, you have to use prospectors to expand beyond the 3rd ref. However, if you need to use prospectors, it's generally later in the game anyway, by which time the large deploy time shouldn' be as much as an issue (and remember, you can build the ref in the sidebar while the prospector is still deploying. (And that's why the sputnik takes so fast to deploy, because the Soveit build system builds up from the ground.)

I have been misquoted! (And then misquoted again but with the same message I was trying to convey, but with profanity.)

I am saying Tanks beat Tengu, NOT that Tengu beat tanks.

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