Allied vs Empire

Galgus wrote:Yeah, the Allies have to try to keep the Empire's economy in check and keep them under pressure while defending themselves- and only their Aircraft have that kind of maneuverability.

Besides, their ground force kind of stinks- with stat-inferior Tanks and a lack of a cost-effective anti-man-spam unit outside of Peacekeeper spam.

There aren't any cost effective anti-man spam units, except have a lot of inf and maybe getting a critical mass of tanks. But thats it. Basically to beat spam, you have to spam back.

You can also use vindicators or twinblades (especially against Empire, who's infantry can't shoot back) and if you're going for a really weird build order, sea wings.

You can also use riptides, sickles, or tengus, but against any sizeable amount of anit-vehicle infantry, they will die too fast.

SEA-106 wrote:You can also use vindicators or twinblades (especially against Empire, who's infantry can't shoot back) and if you're going for a really weird build order, sea wings.

You can also use riptides, sickles, or tengus, but against any sizeable amount of anit-vehicle infantry, they will die too fast.

Well thats the thing, vindi's can stop bomb, but its kinda fruitless, since IW's take two bombs to kill, plus they're a swarm of them, it'll take too long. Twinbaldes are good, but you'll need to make sure:

A. He has no way to produce any tengus or VX's.

B. You have like 5-10 minimum, because any less and it won't be efficient enough to deal with the swarm/

Allied inf, well aircraft will get raped by javs, even twins won't be good enough, unless you gota swarm of them as well. Which basically means you need to spam back.

Just saying.

You also forgot walls. They make dealing with an infantry spam much easier, especially if you stop-micro all the anti-vehicle infantry first.

SEA-106 wrote:You also forgot walls. They make dealing with an infantry spam much easier, especially if you stop-micro all the anti-vehicle infantry first.

Empire yes, allies no. Simply because javs can shoot back.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2/11/10 6:22:04 PM

SEA-106 wrote:However, just to make myself clear, If an Allied player ever did a perfect game, he would be unbeatable. (unless the game was unbalanced) But the thing is, there is no such thing as a perfect game, because, being humans, we will make mistakes, and we do not know what the enemy is always planning. So, the winner should always be the person who did a better game.

I get your point, but the problem is like this: allies have a worked-out strategy, almost 75% of which can be done on "autopilot", because the first moves are standard and may vary in numbers slightly (not to mention a multigunner-turret push, which can be placed at absolutely unpredictable place), while empire has to improvise all the time. Half-autopiloting is much more likely to win the day than improvising, so an empire player must be at least a little more skilled than allied to win against this strategy, This is wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2/11/10 8:41:17 PM

Every faction currently has too much "auto-piloting" currently.

Anyway, if the Empire is allowed to gain strength they are nearly unstoppable.

Also, the Allies have the most micro required to succeed- and it only gets harder in large-scale matches.

The Allies have to chose the right tactic to win- but currently that amounts to not enough options- same for every other faction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2/13/10 12:03:18 AM

Galgus, empire needs to micro at least at the same level as allies to keep up (basically to not lose flawlessly). Invalid argument.

Also, empire strategies are never autopilot, because empire player always needs to build a response to his allied opponent. IOW, allies declare the course of the match and empire plays their game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2/13/10 12:14:37 AM

Empire micro is easier because pressing "f" changes the roles of units completely- and in combat there isn't much needed other than attack move and some positionng.

Allied micro is harder because of using supporting things (among other things.) well to win, like Shrink Beam, Target Painter, keeping any Infantry from getting owned by Tsunami Tanks, stop-micro, freezing targets one-by-one and getting something to shatter them, ect.

Also, Empire can lose tons of units and its just part of the game- but if Allies ever take heavy losses it can be GG.

Galgus wrote:Also, Empire can lose tons of units and its just part of the game

LOL what? Losing 1 tengu at the beginning of the match can be a gg.

really timing is the key here, allies can be a bit more careless when timing attacks but if the empire *** up even by one second, it could end up losing you the match

i find the real reason why most allied players lose to empire players is cause the allied player after he repels the first wave, he doesn't take the inisitive and presses on and instead camps in his base and gives the empire time to rebuild an attack force

pokemon wrote:

Galgus wrote:Also, Empire can lose tons of units and its just part of the game

LOL what? Losing 1 tengu at the beginning of the match can be a gg.

If losing one Tengu meant you lose the game, the Empire would not stand a chance...

Vs. Allies they standardly lose units early on- unless they make turrets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2/13/10 3:55:34 AM

Losing 1 tengu can be a gg, but only in an Empire mirror. Against Allies, it doesn't really matter. Indeed, it's practically impossible NOT to lose at least 1 tengu, because of how weak they are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2/13/10 11:39:45 AM

Well, as Galgus already said above, if you build a VX-turret to cover you tengus coming out, then you won't lose them and be able to store them to fight back those appolos. But we are talking about mcv-push mainly here.

BTW, i checked out dasduelon replays and didn't find him facing a rush.

Also,

91_havoc wrote:i find the real reason why most allied players lose to empire players is cause the allied player after he repels the first wave, he doesn't take the inisitive and presses on and instead camps in his base and gives the empire time to rebuild an attack force

It is because they camp with 3 refs, while empire rebuilds with 4. I saw many of this in replays.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2/15/10 1:04:35 PM

its becuase the allied player has to have the complete upper hand in order to expand at all, if he moves his mcv, then he cant build turrets or walls to defend his collectors or PP, and cant rebuild any destoryed production structures, as well as loosing his tech. And if he sends a prospector he has a huge chance of it dying and then haivng to retrain, remove, and redeploy it again, which takes a huge amount of time

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