My take on the themes of the factions.

SEA-106 wrote:for versing Empire tier 3 as Soviets, use twinblades to kill the waveforce, even if they die in the process. Now, they do not have the counter to terror drone, and with a bit of micro, you can defeat them easily with a standard ground force. (just don't let your terror drones die.)

Mass tengus makes waveforce untouchable by air, this has been disscussed many a time. Sov ter3 is realllllly bad compared to the other two.

@Galgus:

Two athena cannons can beat apocs easily, they'll kite apocs like no tomorrow.

With target painter- maybe. Otherwise no way.

Tesla Troopers should do well vs Athena Cannon spam- since the Allies will need PKs and/or Dogs and/or Cryocopters to take them out.

(They are surprisingly resistant to Spectrum damage.)

Anyway, the part about Soviets building a strong economy before major attacks still stands.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 11/19/09 6:35:17 AM

If they're massing tengu, then they don't have enough money for a large tier 3 spam. If they only have a few tengu, then mig or bullfrog will easily kill them.

Sorry if you don't like it, but it's the proper way to play. Nukestrike developed this, and ever since, no top Empire players have been going quick tier 3, now it's all about tier 2 battles. (see some of the recent games between DasDuelon and either Ganon_The_Boss or Technique as Soviets.)

besides, the actual point was to basically suicide the twinbaldes, sure, you'll lose some valuable units, but then they'll lose their expensive tier 3 force, which costs a lot more.

Of course, you could always forget the WF altogether.

Matiz_PL wrote:That's marke's fast t3 BO. Don't builid WF if you see him going mainframe. Just get AF asap, flakdrop (5 flaks and send bears beforehand) his mainframe or WF to delay his t3. get another expo and mass twinblades. Get every 2 twinblades into another control group, two twinblades instakill landed VX, check his VX count and if u have 2 times more twins, then you can attack them without suffering much looses. Of course 1-2 migs are necessary in case he gets tengus.
If, you builit WF already, well, it's still not bad, just get Terror drone and harrass him a bit, sell WF immediately, get flaks and do the same. (flakdrop, twin mass etc)

If you remember, this guy was in the top 8 in ladder season 3, but lost to mutou in the quaterfinals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/19/09 6:44:35 AM

SEA-106 wrote:If they're massing tengu, then they don't have enough money for a large tier 3 spam. If they only have a few tengu, then mig or bullfrog will easily kill them.

Sorry if you don't like it, but it's the proper way to play. Nukestrike developed this, and ever since, no top Empire players have been going quick tier 3, now it's all about tier 2 battles. (see some of the recent games between DasDuelon and either Ganon_The_Boss or Technique as Soviets.)

besides, the actual point was to basically suicide the twinbaldes, sure, you'll lose some valuable units, but then they'll lose their expensive tier 3 force, which costs a lot more.

Of course, you could always forget the WF altogether.

Matiz_PL wrote:That's marke's fast t3 BO. Don't builid WF if you see him going mainframe. Just get AF asap, flakdrop (5 flaks and send bears beforehand) his mainframe or WF to delay his t3. get another expo and mass twinblades. Get every 2 twinblades into another control group, two twinblades instakill landed VX, check his VX count and if u have 2 times more twins, then you can attack them without suffering much looses. Of course 1-2 migs are necessary in case he gets tengus.
If, you builit WF already, well, it's still not bad, just get Terror drone and harrass him a bit, sell WF immediately, get flaks and do the same. (flakdrop, twin mass etc)

If you remember, this guy was in the top 8 in ladder season 3, but lost to mutou in the quaterfinals.

Ok well, it still proves that sov tier3 is weak, basically all sovs know the only way sovs have to keep pressure on empire if they fast tech is to use mass twins + migs/bullfrogs, you basically backed up what i said there. Sov ground tier3 is an utter joke, waveforce simply pwns mixed in with tier2, leta lone combined with oni's + vx's. Hence why people resort to the twinbalde cloud instead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 11/19/09 7:01:13 AM

Yes, I agree completely, that the Soviet tier 3 sucks.

I wasn't arguing against it at all, just offering advice on how to counter Empire tier 3, which you were complaining about.

However, I would understand that the Soviets probably need a bit of a buff on their ground units, for example, increasing apoc speed. ATM, they only really work against empire if you have a good economic advantage, and can get a large number. (or if you apoc drop)

SEA-106 wrote:Yes, I agree completely, that the Soviet tier 3 sucks.

I wasn't arguing against it at all, just offering advice on how to counter Empire tier 3, which you were complaining about.

However, I would understand that the Soviets probably need a bit of a buff on their ground units, for example, increasing apoc speed. ATM, they only really work against empire if you have a good economic advantage, and can get a large number. (or if you apoc drop)

Apoc drops fail, now since they got they're grinders got nerfed, it takes ages just to kill anything now.

Also i never said that empire was totally uncounterable, just that sov tier 3 < empire tier3.

I still don't see whats so great about Allied tier 3, Mirage Tanks get torn to shreds by King Oni and Apocalypse Tanks- better to get Guardians with Cryocopters.

Galgus wrote:I still don't see whats so great about Allied tier 3, Mirage Tanks get torn to shreds by King Oni and Apocalypse Tanks- better to get Guardians with Cryocopters.

Athena cannons *** apocs, they outclass V4's (since V4 rockets are slow and heavily inaccurate, making it the only Arty unit requiring a support unit to make its shot's usful against units), allies can put their athneas behind a mass of close range units (the rest of their army) and let athneas pick off anything that tries to approch it, including those V4's which are SUPPOSED to counter athenas.

Do i need to say anymore?

Your Protocols counter Athenas- every single tree. (Lvl 3 mag satelite is a bit late- but it exists.)

When they are in shield mode they are very vulnerable to them.

Thing is tho, V4's are better than athenas vs buildings

Galgus wrote:Your Protocols counter Athenas- every single tree. (Lvl 3 mag satelite is a bit late- but it exists.)

When they are in shield mode they are very vulnerable to them.

Rofl, so i gotta use the shitty line just to counter some goddamn athena cannons

@Bobug:

No your wrong, Athena cannons are BETTER against structures than V4's, they can target faster and reload faster than V4 and since all arty don't need line of sight, the V4 lost the one thing it had going for it, an arced trajectory.

So basically V4 is outclassed in alsomsot everyway, that is apparent because to kill any unit you need a TD with it to keep that unit still long enough for the V4 to kill it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/20/09 6:01:54 PM

No, I am saying every protocol tree for Soviets can counter Athenas in shield mode.

Galgus wrote:No, I am saying every protocol tree for Soviets can counter Athenas in shield mode.

Basic awardness + planety of game knowledge > protcols killing your units.

This suggestion is also rofl, your now telling me i have to use protcols to counter athenas

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/20/09 7:17:29 PM

If the Athenas are in shield mode, they are going to be sitting there long enough for Protocols to kill them.

Its certainly not the only way- but it is a very effective one.

Galgus wrote:If the Athenas are in shield mode, they are going to be sitting there long enough for Protocols to kill them.

Its certainly not the only way- but it is a very effective one.

Thats still a cop out solution.

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